Hi IT Pros, This is the moved thread from Wordpress Polyglots portal. Well I don't have further comments. Please feel free to post your comments and discussion.
This is the official Wordpress.org page for Burmese. http://mya.wordpress.org/
Currently Sithu Thwin, an Ayar font user, is holding the SVN repository. This the the latest po file uploaded. http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress-i18n/my_MM/trunk/my_MM.po
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ngwestar
Warning!!!, mya.wordpress.org is not appropriate encoding with Unicode Standards. Translators are being used non-Unicode Standards encoding in their translated string. How can we prevent releasing their non-standards encoding and any procedure to convert as batch processing to convert it to Unicode standards.
We strongly recommended to use Unicode standards in wordpress localization.
Herzcthu is using Ayar fonts instead of Unicode standards fonts. Please check Unicode font standards list at following web sites;
http://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Font#Unicode_5.1_Myanmar.2FB...
http://www.myanmarlanguage.org/unicode/myanmar-fonts-which-follow-u...
herzcthu
Hello Ngwestar,
Zé advice me to comment on your post but I write a new post here.
I don’t want to make an argument about burmese unicode here because this site is not meant for that issue.
But I think I need to explain why I use Ayar Unicode instead of other Unicode you mentioned.
Before I start this project, I look for which Unicode should use in translation.
I test Padauk, Myazedi, Myanmar 3 and Ayar. Ayar is the last font I tested.
I find out that Padauk, Myazedi and Myanmar 3 have some rendering problems and typo problem.
You said Ayar is not unicode and only fonts you mentioned are unicode. I don’t think that so.
You know, Ayar follow all unicode code points and differ with other font in some glymphs’ encoding method.
See http://www.unicode.org/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html
It says – Even for a single language like English no single encoding was adequate for all the letters, punctuation, and technical symbols in common use.
These encoding systems also conflict with one another. That is, two encodings can use the same number for two different characters, or use different numbers for the same character. Any given computer (especially servers) needs to support many different encodings; yet whenever data is passed between different encodings or platforms, that data always runs the risk of corruption.
So actually, in Myanmar Unicode range, there are 5 different ethnic group’s languages, — Burmese, Mon, Shan, Karen, Kayah–, and they have their own language nature. So they need different encoding methods. At least 3 encoding methods need for Myanmar Languages.
All the fonts you mentioned as unicode fonts support only some of them. Even Padauk font which include all glymphs in Myanmar Unicode Range, cannot use all 5 of this ethnic groups’ languages. Padauk have some display error in Mon. Only Ayar Unicode can read or write all 5 of ethnic group’s languages.
Beside Unicode.org says – Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.
Only Ayar has cross platform compatibility. None of them, you mentioned as unicode, use in Mac OS. Only Ayar can do that. None of them cannot use in adobe systems. Only Ayar can use in adobe systems. I tested it and it can work perfectly in Adobe CS3.
All the fonts you mentioned as unicode are only meant for Micorsoft Platform in very limited Applications. And also meant for only use in burmese languages, not for all the languages include in Myanmar Unicode range. We have a plan to translate for all ethnic groups. We have very active translation team. So the font use for WP translation needs to fully support all the ethnic groups. I wrote in our official site that I will change Ayar unicode to other unicode if that unicode can do everything ayar can do now. Don’t worry about data interchangable, Ayar has many tools for it and working to improve. Don’t worry about wiki page, Ayar is working for wikipages using ayar unicode.
Ayar Unicode do not to advertise because Ayar is not commercial font.
WordPress need to compatible with GNU General Public License, Version 2. Ayar’s License is fully compatible with GNU General Public License, Version 2.
By the way, I’m not, at this time, Ayar’s officail member. I work individually.
For further discussion about this unicode issues, come to our translation team’s official site http://atp.ayar.co/ .
minnkyaw and 2 others are discussing. 
Thank you.
minnkyaw 1:26 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
Thank….herzcthu for your explaining. It is very useful. This is Translate place. Do not abuse user’s rights. User can choose whatever s/he like. Because we are not living Bamboo and we need suitable and realizable words. Please… Do not hijack user rights.
Lionslayer 3:24 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
May be it’s our fault that we cannot make you, Ayar guys, to adopt official Unicode encoding. Here is the official font list from Unicode.org (http://unicode.org/resources/fonts.html) and Parabaik is the only listed font there.
Here is the accepted Unicode list by Myanmar NLP (http://www.myanmarnlp.net.mm/), the national representative for Myanmar Language.
Myanmar3 (Myanmar NLP)
Padauk (SIL)
Parabaik
WinUniInnwa
Masterpiece Uni Sans
MyMyanmar
Xenotype
Yunghkio
And all the fonts are data interchangeable. And claim of not working on OSX is wrong. Unicode works perfectly on Linux, Windows(XP2 and later), OSX. Pango, Uniscribe, Opentype and AAT technologies were used accordingly. Linux community fully support Myanmar Unicode and Padauk is available as a package. Ayar font is not working with ICU components either. The reason Ayar font is working is that Ayar only uses opentype ligature feature and that feature works on most of the application.
The claim that Unicode doesn’t work with Ethnic scripts is also wrong. The latest Padauk release from SIL (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=Padauk) does support Burmese, Shan, Karen, Sagaw Karen, Mon, Pao and Palaung.
I will tell you what’s wrong with Ayar font. Ayar font exactly follows the Unicode codepoints. But never follow the Unicode encoding and character orders are visually ordered. The correct encoding orders are explained here. http://unicode.org/notes/tn11/UTN11_3.pdf
To simply put, Myanmar Unicode is encoded as consonant+medial+vowel as instructed in http://unicode.org/notes/tn11/UTN11_3.pdf. And Ayar Font is encoded as vowel+medial+consonant in some places and medial+consonant+vowel in some places and consonant+medial+vowel in some places which means inconsistency.
The affected characters are u1031, u103C and kinzi(u1004 u103A u1039). it affects the 12 percents of syllables and 70 percents of words from Myanmar lexicon.
Unicode is a NGO yet a registered inc. Ayar cannot use Unicode if it’s not following Unicode standard. It’s abusing of Unicode encoding.
@Ko Minn Kyaw, I thought you will update Ayar encoding to follow standard over times. And you told me to mention in your Ayar websites that Ayar doesn’t exactly follow Unicode encoding. You said users can choose the font they like. By claiming that users are confused for usages of different fonts. But localization only should follow “standard”.
##I’m a member of Myanmar Language SIG and working together with Myanmar NLP. I’m also a Unicode activist and Wikipedian. Mediawiki Burmese interface is mostly done by me. WordPress localization wouldn’t take more than a week if I were to submit from SVN. I will not further debate in Ayar encoding anymore. To WordPress team, I request all access to what herzcthu is currently accessing.
Lionslayer 3:31 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
By the way, we already finish most of WordPress Localization last year.
Here is upstream. http://lists.automattic.com/pipermail/wp-polyglots/2010-July/004830...
Here is language file. http://www.wordpress-my.tk/wordpress-my-MM.po.Final-31.po.gz
minnkyaw 9:27 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
@ Lionslayer
Ya, Parabaik is the only listed font there… ? Because Parabaik, ngwestar who owned, Business link with Solveware Solution and taking advance than MM3.
@herzcthu
Thank… your WordPress Localization pack is included multisite and twentyten and useful also translated 100% of words. They are translated 80% and not included above. Grate Jobs.
@ngwestar & @ Lionslayer
You should do better than Ayar and do not arguable about WordPress localization. In my options, If your fonts work & compatible, User will change it and herzcthu will changed it is your fonts when you are ready.
Today, your fonts have no standard in same Version. Some of then included English and some of then not. Some of than only work with windows and some only work Mac. It is so called Unicode standard?
I read herzcthu’s link at http://www.unicode.org/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html about unicode is
no matter what the platform,
no matter what the program,
no matter what the language.
Your all font only worked limited application too. How can called?
Lionslayer 10:51 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
I don’t want to argue with you guys for your little fund raising projects. Carry on. Since you guys got svn, there is nothing I can do.
minnkyaw 11:44 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
what is fund raising projects? Can you show me. if not, You should pay me what you mentioned and You should clear your stand. Ayar is free from all Government & NGOs and stand on own fund. Ayar paid own and no one paid for all Ayar projects. Not like your projects like from wiki.
We do what user want and what is useful for user. We never argue before because it is not necessary for this kinds of places. If you think, you had any advices & questions, come to Unicode Conference where we discuss professional matter. In our stand, Ayar never link any Business and Government’s projects: Hoped do more understand… come to http://atp.ayar.co/.
minnkyaw 12:02 am on March 24th, 2011 Permalink |
I do not understand what you are talking about in here. We haven’t asked about money, have we?
Ayar still run by own fund and haven’t take any support from other stakeholder.
We only think about user friendly and Myanmarsar. We do not want to argue, it is not necessary for this kinds of places. I would like to invite you to come and discuss at Unicode Conference where we discuss professional matter for your further advices. In our stand, Ayar never take any profit link with Business and Government’s projects. Hoped do more understand… come to http://atp.ayar.co/.
ngwestar 11:10 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
@ Minn Kyaw,
I do my best which is our product are in standards. We don’t need to do better product than following standards. So. If you can do with standards and there are no more better product for Unicode.
you don’t know about yet application and Unicode standards. You can’t know the taste of grape because you can’t jump up. cheers. go ahead.
minnkyaw 11:52 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
Yes, Mr. Standard,
Do your best your Business and your projects. Try to finish your never finish project from Ayar too what we paid. After finish it, let it talk more.
ngwestar 7:14 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
Dear Herzcthu,
Good to know about you had strong translation team and willing to do localization jobs for our beloved language. What we need to say here it, unite and uniform with International standards. I don’t want to say which is right and wrong. We must go further with Recent Standards. Yes, Ayar Font could be best in the font face. There are some more font face is better than our current usage. But Our actual issue is data interchange. Well, If you will try with Ayar, Don’t say as Unicode. Unicode is not only Code Point Standards. We must follow other sub-standards such as CLDR and Annex. If you’ve learned on Unicode matters, Please try to encourage Ayar Team to go further with Unicode such Standards. We do favour Ayar’s Visual Encoding and widely support in such legacy software. We must respect the Standards by Burmese Literacy too.
Finally. Don’t trust on our saying as those are unicode. Try with yourself and let me know your pointing errors as rendering in Burmese and other miniorities. No font can’t solve typo errors.
Last but not least. Be make sure to proof that Ayar are such accepted standards in any other official by Unicode Consoritum. We will go further with Ayar. Right now. Be make sure to go further with data-interchangable standards.
Thanks.
minnkyaw 10:07 pm on March 23rd, 2011 Permalink |
@Herzcthu,
Thank.. I will come http://atp.ayar.co/ to discuss on your views. They do nothings for community. Do not waste your times.
Best;
Minn Kyaw
Htoo Myint Naung 12:21 am on March 24th, 2011 Permalink |
Hi,
I have been official member of Unicode Consortium for more than 5 years and administrator at My.Wikipedia.Org for more than 2 years. I believe I can represent the Consortium more than anyone else here. And Ayar is NOT conformant to Unicode Standards. To explain this, the Consortium not only standardize numbers to characters (assigning code-points), but also do many other important standardizations including storage sequence, normalizations, etc. Ayar may be using Unicode code-points like the rest of faked Unicode products, but not conformant to storage sequence. So many linguists and technicians discussed and maintained the current Unicode Standard which INCLUDES storage sequence. Being unable to data-exchange is one apparent problem using Ayar. But, what linguists like us see beyond that, is a big mess. And I saw a number of contributors using Mac OSX and some Linux users contributing My.Wikipedia.org which supports ALL unicode standard conformant products. In addition, the word Unicode and the logo is the property of the Unicode Consortium, using it in a product without permission is illegal. See list of unicode conformant fonts in Lionslayer’s reply, nobody using that word in their product names. So, use Ayar, not Ayar Unicode which is illegal in United States and many other countries.
Regards,
Htoo